Outside Dogs and the Law: How Support Keeps Dogs Out of Shelters

In this episode, you’ll learn: 

• Why a dog kept outside with adequate food, water, and shelter is often within the law, even when the living situation is far from ideal
• How meeting owners with support rather than judgment changes outcomes for dogs the shelter system can’t serve
• The connection between human poverty and animal welfare, and why helping the person helps the animal
• How spay/neuter incentives work when cost and transportation barriers are removed
• Why preventing a surrender before an owner reaches the shelter lobby matters so much
• How to start this kind of work in your own community, even without a formal organization

Key Takeaway

When the law is satisfied but a dog still needs more, supporting owners where they are keeps dogs out of shelters and improves the lives of the animals and people the system leaves out.

Episode Highlights

 00:01 — Welcome & Episode Focus: introducing the crisis of dogs legally kept outside in Pennsylvania and the barriers to intervention

01:53 — The Underdogs of Philly Mission: how Underdogs of Philly fills the gap left by animal shelters and humane law enforcement

03:44 — Origin Story: how a grassroots effort became a formal organization addressing Philadelphia’s unique needs

05:11 — Pushback from Advocates: responding to critics who fear that supporting outdoor pets “enables” bad owners

06:03 — Trust-Building Strategies: the crucial “knock on the door,” building relationships, and the surprises of community outreach

08:23 — Nonjudgmental Help: leading with resources, avoiding threats, and the importance of patience in every case

09:09 — Gaps in the Law: why Pennsylvania’s shelter requirements are vague and the impact on outdoor dogs

11:39 — What Underdogs Provides: from better doghouses to monthly food, vet care, and spay-neuter incentives, tailoring support to each situation

13:00 — Boundaries and Policies: decisions about when to provide help, tying extra support to spay/neuter, and handling unique scenarios

17:12 — Removing Barriers: addressing practical obstacles like transportation, cost, and post-surgery recovery for outdoor dogs

20:11 — Rehoming When Needed: partnering with rescues and the shelter to avoid unnecessary surrenders while providing a safety net for families in crisis

26:06 — Human and Animal Welfare Overlap: the intersection of poverty, housing issues, and pet care, and why true advocacy means supporting the whole family

28:34 — Starting a Similar Program: advice for advocates elsewhere — table judgment, build curiosity, and take local action, even if it’s just helping one neighbor at a time

Resources Mentioned:

Underdogs of Philly

Underdogs of Philly on Instagram

Philadelphia City Council Bill 250989

The Four C’s of Legislative Advocacy for Animals

Related Episodes:

Unlicensed Breeding and Shelter Overcrowding: A Novel Legislative Approach

How Philadelphia Passed a Breeding Moratorium 15-0: A Framework for Animal Advocates

When Cruelty Laws Collide With Inaccessible Vet Care: What Advocates Can Do

Transcript 

Penny Ellison:

Welcome back to the Animal Advocate. Today we’re talking about one of my favorite subjects, and that’s dogs left outdoors. In Pennsylvania and in most states, it’s legal to keep your dog outside 24 hours a day, year-round in any weather. I know …it stinks. There is a minimum standard, usually, for the shelter you need to provide. But here and in a lot of places, that standard is vague. And as long as the owner stays barely on the right side of it, there’s not much the police or humane law enforcement can do. People comment on social media all the time asking why the police or the SPCA doesn’t just go take the dog. In most cases, the answer is they can’t. That dog is that person’s property and they’re not violating the law. So what can we do for dogs who are being kept outside of legally but still suffering? Today’s guests have one answer and it isn’t stealing the dog.

Welcome to the Animal Advocate, where we arm animal lovers with the information and inspiration you need to become effective advocates. I’m your host, Penny Ellison, and I’ve taught animal law and advocacy at the University of Pennsylvania since 2006. If you’ve ever thought someone should do something about that, I’m here to guide you on your journey to being that someone. You can find us on the web at animaladvocacyacademy.com and that’s where you’ll find show notes and resources and you can send us your comments on episodes and ideas for topics you’d like to hear on future shows. So on to today’s topic.

Underdogs of Philly is doing something municipal shelters, humane law enforcement, and traditional rescues just aren’t designed to do. They work with owners who keep their dogs outside, and they’re keeping those dogs in their homes safer and out of overcrowded shelters in situations the standard approach to animal welfare just doesn’t reach. Today’s guests are the co-presidents of Underdogs of Philly, Cara Brand and Caroline Lipinski. If you’ve ever seen a social media debate about a chained or penned dog and wondered why no one is doing anything, this is what doing something looks like. What they do isn’t seize or steal dogs or threaten enforcement or lecture the owners. They knock on doors, they build trust over multiple visits, and they offer practical resources. They call the work iterative, with each visit making the dog’s life a little better than it was before. The families that Cara and Caroline and their volunteers work with are most often not being intentionally cruel, but they’re dealing with poverty, housing instability, or circumstances that make it hard to give the dog. What they want to give is animal welfare and human services overlapping. And I think that overlap is where a lot of the most useful work in this field is happening right now. So join me for my conversation with Caroline and Cara and Underdogs of Philly.

Welcome, Cara and Caroline, to the Animal Advocate.

Cara and Caroline:

Thank you.

Penny Ellison:

Underdogs of Philly is kind of a unique organization. I know a lot of different animal organizations with different kinds of missions, but yours is really unique. So tell me how you got started and what your mission is.

Cara:

Thanks, Penny. We’re really happy to talk to you today. So the Underdogs grew out of, like, this grassroots community effort that had been taking place for several, several years in Philadelphia. And Caroline and I noticed that as the need for assistance and resources for pet owners grew in Philadelphia, it made sense to us to, like, really formalize this mission and become a 501C so we can expand our resources and our outreach. And we were also very inspired by other organizations like Dog Aid out of Michigan, who built this kind of work into something that’s formalized and sustainable at scale. So seeing this model exist inspired us to build this mission into something legitimate and lasting in Philly. I guess I should tell you a little bit about our mission. We partner with owners in Philadelphia who primarily keep their dogs living outside, which can be confusing to hear sometimes that dog owners keep their dogs outside. So we partner with them to give them resources and support in order to improve the quality of life for those dogs.

Penny Ellison:

That’s interesting, because a lot of animal advocates are really concerned about dogs being left outside. I know I am. And they might object to you facilitating keeping dogs outside instead of somehow requiring them — as if you could do that — to bring them inside. So, Caroline, what’s your experience been with that, with the feedback you get from advocates about your work?

Caroline:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, Cara and I, we get it. We understand the criticism. It’s really hard to see dogs living outside, and even we still struggle with it when we’re out doing the work. But the question that we keep coming back to is, you know, what is the alternative if we don’t engage with these owners, if we don’t build this relationship, the dog is still outside. You know, legally. What these dog owners are doing is within Pennsylvania state law. And then the other thing that we consider is the city shelter is full.

We’re very aware of how overpopulated Philadelphia is. And if we are taking dogs from yards or we are encouraging people to surrender their dogs. We are only adding to the overpopulation problem that already exists here.

Penny Ellison:

So how do you find out about these dogs? What happens from the first time you knock on the door and offer help?

Cara:

There’s two primary ways that we connect with owners. The first is through word of mouth within the community. Right. So often we’re already working with an owner and their family member or neighbor. Right. Oh, they need help a few blocks away, or people just see us working out and about and say, I need help. So that’s actually the best way for us to connect with owners because it’s people reaching out and asking for support, which then we are happy to give.

Penny Ellison:

Which is interesting also, because I think there is an assumption that if you keep your dog outside, you don’t care about them. And if they’re reaching out for your help, they care.

Cara:

Yeah, absolutely. We know many like full families because we are, you know, integrated into, you know, multiple houses across their family. Another way that we often connect with owners is through assistance report forms.  And that can be harder because these are either neighbors or people that see this on their commute to work or whatever, and then we’ll fill out a form to ask for help. And this is harder because, number one, that a neighbor might have a fuller picture of what’s going on. Right. Because they’re there all the time. But somebody that might just walk by to go to work or something like that might not actually see the full picture of what’s happening with that dog. They think that dog is outside all the time, but they’re not there 8 o’ clock at night or in the rain or something like that. However, we do our best to follow up with every owner from these forms that come in. And it starts with a knock.

Caroline:

Yeah. And that first knock is everything. So this is where we see a lot of people get it wrong. We are not there to judge. We are not there to threaten. We don’t enforce anything. And we make that really clear right off the bat. We also usually lead with resources, so.

So we always bring a small bag of food or some cans of food. We bring straw in the wintertime. And that’s just an immediate signal like, we are here to help. We are here to build a bridge. And like Cara kind of mentioned, sometimes dog owners can be defensive. It could be that they’ve had bad interactions in the past. Sometimes we go to a house and humane law enforcement has already been there, or maybe an angry neighbor has come over and taken it into their own hands. And that doesn’t really set up us up for success, but we just….We listen, we ask about the dog, we ask about what’s their name, how long have you had her, what’s her behavior like? And sometimes we’re coming back three, four, five times until the owner really trusts us and they reach out on their own to us.

Penny Ellison:

Because you are filling that gap where you mentioned some of these houses have had humane law enforcement out there, which means probably their neighbors reported it first as a potential cruelty case. The officer came out, said, you know, it may not be ideal, but it doesn’t violate the law. And that’s when you come in to say, well, how can we make the situation better?

Caroline:

Right, Absolutely. Yeah. A lot of, you know, there’s gaps in the law, if that makes sense. What is legal might not actually be the best solution. Right.

Penny Ellison:

So we can take a pause for a second and talk about what the Pennsylvania law does require, which is that the shelter is sufficient to preserve the dog’s body heat. So it doesn’t have any specifics, although the city code does, but that’s a different story. It doesn’t have any specifics around what the shelter needs to be made of, what it needs to look like, whether it needs to be raised off the ground, whether it needs a flap at the entrance. I think we are both for a change in the law to get those specifics, because then it helps. It helps the people know how to comply with the law. It helps the dogs because it really does protect them better, and it helps law enforcement because a standard that’s very vague, like, preserve the dog’s body heat, that’s very hard to enforce.

Cara:

Yeah, I think, like, that vagueness is what, like, we identified as the gap there. A shelter made of, you know, plywood is certainly in compliance. Right. But is that insulated? Is it, you know, breaking the wind? Is it old? And therefore gaps? Where can you get in? And can we provide a better shelter to help, like, really preserve that body heat? other things? A lot of people have a lot of feelings in terms of  the wintertime. Right. In terms of, like, the insulation. But I think, especially these past summers and the heat waves that we’ve been having, like, is there enough sun, shade, cover to protect that dog from overheating in the summertime? And even if you think about tethering laws.

Penny Ellison:

Right.

Cara:

Yes, a dog on a tether that allows them to move around and have access to shelter and food and water is legal, but are there ways that we could fortify the yard or erect a kennel, for example, to get that dog off chain or tether. Even just swapping out a chain for a lightweight cable can make a world of a difference. These are not perfect solutions, but they are iteratively better improvements.

Penny Ellison:

And that dog definitely wants you to do something rather than nothing, right?

Cara:

We hope. Yes, exactly.

Penny Ellison:

Yeah. So you were talking about the knock on the door and that you have to build trust. And sometimes it’s going to take several knocks on the door before you’re in that backyard seeing what the dog’s condition really is. And you talked about maybe shelter, maybe fortifying a fence. So,  tell me all the things that you might offer to an owner to support them in being a better dog parent.

Cara:

Absolutely. So our program is pretty unique in the fact that every owner and pet situation that we deal with is unique. So, you know, we talked about the knock on the door, and we want to learn about the dogs in the family. Sometimes we do work with owners who have multiple dogs in the yard, and if they invite us into their home or backyard, we assess it. So what we look at is what is their current shelter situation, how can we improve it? We talk to them about resources. Are they food insecure? Do they feel like they’re able to feed their dog appropriately? You know, twice a day? We do offer, if. If owners are willing to spay or neuter their dog, we will bring monthly food deliveries to them. So that is a unique service that we offer.

Caroline:

And then we talk to them about vet care. Are they up to date on their vaccines? When is the last time they’ve been to the vet? Can we help them get an appointment? And then we have some really unique scenarios, too. You know, we’ve had dogs in our program where the dog has ended up at the house. You know, the young son didn’t want it anymore, and the father’s taking care of it. And it’s a young adolescent pit bull with lots of energy. And so we’ve worked with families to get training sessions so that they know how to manage their dog and take it on walks. And, you know, it is not one size fits all. But our overall mission is how do we improve each dog’s life that we get into contact with.

Cara:

And if I can elaborate on that, Caroline, I think it also is trying to understand the owners as well and what boundaries we have with our finite resources to provide owners. So, for example, in the wintertime, we sometimes will see or interact with backyard breeders. And I will always say, do you need some straw. I will give straw to anybody in the city. Right. I don’t condone breeding. I think it is bad. It is, will be, you know, a moratorium on it. But you know, beforehand, like, no, I will give straw. That straw is so cheap and can be so life saving for the dog. But I won’t give anything more like Caroline mentioned, unless they agree to spay neuter because they’re breeding, we won’t give it.

Cara:

You know, then there are some people that also refuse to spay neuter. But there’s only one dog, right. So they’re not going to breed. You know, there’s no act like they’re not actively breeding, they’re not trying to

Penny Ellison:

breed, they’re not affecting anybody else. They’re not sending dogs to the shelter.

Cara:

Right. So it is not a requirement to be spayed or neutered to be in our program. We will vet that dog, we will provide a house, you know, solutions, things like that. But we won’t give free, monthly food support to that owner. That we are reserving for owners that have made that choice to spay neuter. So there are gradations of  how and what we can give to the owners depending on their choices and their…

Penny Ellison:

You’re trying to incentivize them to spay/neuter by providing additional services if they’re willing to do that. And what kind of response have you gotten to that? Are most people willing?

Caroline:

We say it’s like a little bit of a mixed bag, similar to what we do for that first knock. Talking about spay and neutering is a constant for us. So it happens the first time we meet the family. It happens every time we’re back in the yard. And I will say that we do get, you know, sometimes owners are immediately interested. Maybe the barrier in the past was the cost or they didn’t have transportation to go do this. And sometimes it can be, you know, just an opinion. I think something that people in the animal advocacy space don’t really realize is that some people just didn’t know people spayed and neutered their dogs.

Cara:

They always had dogs growing up. Their dogs always had puppies. And that is just what they think a dog does. Like, we hear a lot, oh, I really want my dog to have a family. And you know, we have a different picture of what it actually looks like when a dog has puppies. And, and there’s nowhere for those puppies to go.

Penny Ellison:

There used to be a pervasive myth that it was good for the dog to have one litter. And I think there’s some people that still believe that.

Cara:

Absolutely. And so, you know, we are so entwined in the animal advocacy world, and we are so aware of the overpopulation, but the average person in Philadelphia really might not know that, you know, ACCT is flooding with dogs at open intake. And so we try to provide that education. We’re really excited about the moratorium that’s going to go into effect this summer because it provides us the ability to say, you know, it is so bad in the city right now with how many dogs there are, we had to pass this bill to make sure people weren’t having puppies anymore.

Caroline:

It’s also, like, a persistence and trust. Right. So, sometimes it takes 2, 3 years for an owner…

Penny Ellison:

You’re not saying anything like that on the first visit?

Cara:

No, I mean, we always offer it on the first visit. But I always say. I say, hey, are you interested in spay/neuter? And I want to be. And I always follow up with, I want to be clear that your answer does not depend on whether you’re in or out of the program. So I always, like, try to set the stakes very low at first to get an honest and ongoing conversation going so that I can just see what their views are and then hope to lead with some education. And then I think once they start to realize that we’re not some random weirdos that are coming to their neighborhood, Right. They know who we are.

Caroline:

They call us when there’s a problem. Then we ask, you know, we always revisit it, and they’re like, okay, fine, yeah, sure. You know, like, so it is just a little war of attrition.

Penny Ellison:

And importantly, Caroline, you said the barriers in the past, the barrier might be in lack of awareness. The barrier might be an idea that this is not something that I want for my dog. But the barriers are also real in terms of cost and transportation. So, if someone says yes to you, you completely remove those barriers. You’re like, it does not. No cost to them, and you’ll transport the dog.

Caroline:

We do. And we even provide, in certain circumstances, medical boarding if that’s going to be the best choice for the dog. So that’s what we fundraise for, and we get a lot of support from the community for it. But, yeah, we want to remove every barrier there is to spay or neuter your dog in Philadelphia.

Penny Ellison:

Yeah.

Cara:

That is a important wrinkle that Caroline brought up about the medical boarding. If the dog is living outside, especially for a spay, we can’t just have that.  And a lot of these owners don’t have the ability to follow up with daily medications or just check that there’s no infection and things like that. We have partnered with a wonderful boarding place, Wag Days up in Fishtown, and they’ve been wonderful at taking our dogs in for a few days after a spay or neuter in order just to, you know, make sure they’re medically taken care of before we can bring them home.

Penny Ellison:

That is wonderful, because, you know, you’re removing those barriers, but you’re also going right into their neighborhood and into their home. Because I’m all about trying to make things like veterinary care and pet pantries and things accessible so that people don’t need to surrender their animals, but you take it one step further and bring it, you know, right into their home. And I just, I think that’s amazing.

Cara:

I talk a lot about sprinter van. I just want a sprinter van while I will drive around the city and have, like, a mobile spay and a mobile vet clinic out of my sprinter van. But that’s my dream. We have dreams, Dreams and aspirations of sprinter vans.

Penny Ellison:

Okay. Yes. And what you need for that, besides money, is partnerships, because, you know, it’s hard to hire vets, and it’s hard to hire vet techs. But I too  have a dream that with pooled resources, you could put together something like that. So that’s, that’s amazing. Are there people that you end up having to rehome their pets or they want to rehome their pet, and you facilitate that?

Caroline:

There are. It is not our goal. We have been very firm in our stance from the creation of Underdogs that we are not a rescue. We want to be really careful about that. There are so many fantastic rescues in Philadelphia, and we do not need to be one of them. But in working with other rescues, our goal is that if a dog does need to be rehomed, that we are able to network with the rescues that it might be appropriate that they go to so that they’re not ending up in the shelter. So we’ve had different scenarios, some of them more urgent than others. We’ve had dogs that have developed a medical condition, and the owner just does not have the capability to care for them, and they willingly say, I’d like this dog to go to rescue and a better life.

Cara:

And we are so happy to facilitate that.

Penny Ellison:

I think that sometimes happens when you educate people about the type of care that’s required. And then they make their own independent decision that I’m just not up to doing that right now. And it would be better if the dog were somewhere else.

Cara:

There’s also a limit what our financial ability is to support especially medically complex or chronic cases. For example, I’m thinking about a dog in our program that was attacked by another dog,  And this required lots of emergency care and high-end surgery. And we had to go to the owner who called us to tell us this happened. But we had to say to him, you have to surrender this dog because we can’t pay for this. We’re going to have to, you know, try to partner with a rescue or shelter.  To help this dog. And he very willingly surrendered her so that she could get the care that she needed.

Penny Ellison:

We also talked about when humane law enforcement is called in, doesn’t find a violation. So then maybe you come in as a next step to try to just raise the standard. Does it ever happen in the reverse where you get called in person, doesn’t really want your help, and then it becomes a potential cruelty case.

Cara:

So we have a great relationship with both ACCT, which is the city’s open intake shelter, and the PSPCA where we made sure, we introduced ourselves, we built a relationship, and so we don’t typically run into a situation where we are needing to report any sort of abuse or neglect. Every house that we go to, we take notes, we record what’s going on. We want to make sure we’re observing the dog’s body condition. I would say it’s actually kind of the first scenario you mentioned. The city’s shelter has started to hand out our flyers and we actually are getting an increased amount of requests for help because they are going to the home and saying there’s this organization, they can help you out with vet care or a better dog house. It’s been really fantastic to see that for the most part, the pet owners that we interact with want to do better by their dog.

Penny Ellison:

So that sounds like you’re directly preventing surrenders to the city shelter.

Cara:

Oh, yeah, yeah. I remember one case. This is one of my favorite dogs, the owners. This was a neighbor of someone we’d been ingrained with for a really long time and obviously he referred them, you know, to us. And the dog actually lived inside but had chronic, chronic allergies. And he was just like, I can’t keep up with this. I can’t afford it. I need help surrendering this dog.

And I was like, all right, let’s take a pause, let’s see if we can take him to a vet and like work things out and, you know, maybe provide some, you know, salmon food instead of chicken food. Right? And that’s all it took. They didn’t want to surrender the dog. They loved this dog. They just needed some help navigating the veterinary clinics, the medications. And we were able to help them facilitate that and coordinate that. And now that dogs looks great and still at home with the family. I also want to point out that this is to some of the critics and, but also the, the reality that some dogs cannot be rehomed.

Some dogs are under socialized, anxious. They would not do well in a shelter setting. They would deteriorate. And some dogs we do work with, you know, we provide resources and support to the owner, but we cannot interact with the dog. So therefore that dog would be unsafe to like, you know, adopt out to the public. And that’s a reality. So some dogs are potentially best in the environment where they are outdoors, right? So when we hear this, just take them from the yard, right? That sometimes is not a reality for every dog. So we can be creative about the ways, like insulated shelter, fencing panels, right.

Caroline:

Providing food, elevated beds, sunshades to protect them in the summertime. We can be creative about how to improve the quality of their life right where they are in their yard.

Penny Ellison:

And I completely endorse the way you go about it. And you’re, you’re alluding to the vigilante justice people on social media who always say, just hop the fence and take them off the lead. And I, I don’t endorse that. I endorse your way of supporting people. You’ve talked to me some about how you see the future and that you might eventually become part of or partner with a shelter to be able to provide the kind of support you provide to more people and especially before they reach the shelter. Because I know, I’ve learned over the years shelters try to have a help desk. At an open admission shelter, they usually have a help desk. And if people come in to surrender, they’ll say, is there anything that we can do to help you keep your pet? And can we talk about pet food pantries? Can we talk about behavior support? But I think the problem is once that person is standing in the lobby saying, I’m ready to surrender, they’ve sort of crossed a bridge that’s very hard to get them back over. You know, they’ve told their children that we’re getting rid of the dog. And It’s so important to be able to reach those people before they are standing in the lobby ready to surrender. So you analogized it to sort of the way police protection is evolving. So talk to me how you would see this evolving.

Cara:

Sure, yeah. I mean, I would love to see the minimal, like, meaningful standard for outdoor housing be increased at the state level. Something that actually reflects what the dog needs to be safe and healthy, not just, you know, technically alive. However, and this is like my big however, I really want to see those ordinances or laws and enforcement partnered with resources. Essentially what we do would be great, you know, to be partnered with the enforcement arm to then have a more permanent standing and, you know, formalized, you know, task force, if you will, to then follow up and figure out how can we get these resources and support for the owners.

Caroline:

Well, I just want to add one thing that Cara and I believe so strongly, which is that human welfare bleeds into animal welfare. And we see it directly by being out in the communities that are outside of our own neighborhoods meeting people who you might not normally meet if you weren’t out doing this kind of work. But, you know, people in Philadelphia are struggling with their own instabilities in their lives. You know, housing issues, maybe jobs, healthcare. That bleeds into the way that they’re also able to care for their animals. It’s so interconnected. And we just really believe if we’re able to stabilize one part of this person’s life, then hopefully we’re out there creating a better situation overall for them.

Cara:

Yeah. The incidence of dog support and requests also come a lot of times with requests for human groceries and food, or. I know I’ve walked into houses that don’t have running water or they’re heating houses with their ovens, right? And I stand there and think, what can I do? Right? Like, and it is hard for. For. I know, it is hard for me to protect myself from burning out, right? And say, I can focus on this one thing, right? Which is, you know, the dogs. And that still can have a rippling effect, right? Where if they don’t have to worry about getting that next bag of dog food, then maybe they can focus on some human necessities.

Penny Ellison:

So you’re right. It’s important to have cruelty laws that are clear and enforceable and enforced and. And that’s one arm. But I think what you do has to exist right alongside it, that community support of people that want to comply but don’t have the means. Because most of the reasons that animals are either victims of cruelty, I think, or surrendered to shelters are poverty related. So if you can ensure that, help them nourish their dog, help them get vet care for their dog. You also pointed out something important. I think that all of the people on social media that just want all these dogs to be seized, they think that solves the problem.

They don’t know that the shelter is already full and there aren’t a line of people wanting to adopt a five year old pit bull that’s never been inside or trained. That dog is likely to have a worse outcome at the shelter than you providing him with shade and food and attention and medical care. So I think what you do is great. Do you have any advice for people who want to start a similar organization in another city?

Caroline:

I think a lot about, I mean, this is for people who want to start this another city or just people that might be watching this online or, you know, be confused about it and just try to take a step back and have compassion. That does not mean we are condoning or we agree, but have compassion for why this is happening. You know, I think, Penny, you said it beautifully that most of these dog owners are not cruel or neglectful. So I don’t think anything really gets done when judgment is, you know, very forward. So as you approach community members, really trying to table that judgment and come out of a place of curiosity and problem solving. Okay, what’s going on? What do you need for your dog? You know, if you come from a place of curiosity as opposed to like you’re this bad person for keeping this dog outside, you might be very surprised about the answers.

Penny Ellison:

I think all of us that have done this for a while have become significantly less judgmental than when we started. You see these situations that surprise you. You see, I probably twice recently, I see an emaciated dog and you think that person is not feeding their dog and then it turns out they had a medical condition that actually they were feeding them and they weren’t putting on any weight. And we just, we can’t assume the worst of people.

Cara:

Yeah, and I think there are barriers. The fact that we are here on a podcast, this is a privilege to be able to be on this side of the animal welfare barrier, to be the people that can provide resources and support. Something that really sticks with me is a barrier that I like to tell people that I never would have guessed, but a lot of the housing here in Philadelphia are really old and kind of dilapidated houses and one owner didn’t have stairs to his backyard. So it’s just like a four-foot drop. So every time he needed to let his dogs in or, you know, take them out or bring them in, he kind of had to drag them up the four feet. And, you know, you wouldn’t think that, like, just stairs to the backyard would be this huge barrier to letting dogs in and out.

Caroline:

And there’s actually been two houses, Right. One recently as well, like, that did not have stairs.

Penny Ellison:

And you know, that sounds like a code violation. That sounds like a code violation that somebody should have figured out.

Caroline:

You know, that’s what I’m saying. I feel like L & I can get, you know, but I don’t want to be messing with Philadelphia. L & I. But it is the reality, though, unfortunately, like I said, reality of these houses in neighborhoods in Philadelphia. So how can we get creative? Well, let’s see if we can get some volunteers together, build some steps to remove that boundary.

Penny Ellison:

Or are you looking for volunteers?

Caroline:

If you have a pickup truck.

Cara:

Yeah. If you have a pickup truck and any carpentry skills, please, please apply. Yeah.

Penny Ellison:

Wonderful. Any other thoughts you want to leave us with?

Caroline:

I would just say to add to your note about if you’re interested in this kind of work, how to get involved. If you’re in Philadelphia, obviously, reach out to Underdogs. If you’re not, look within your community about what other organizations are already doing. So for Cara and I, it’s been so important to build bridges and relationships with all the great organizations that already exist. We cannot do this alone. We are working with vet partners, rescue partners, the city shelter. We are working with social justice partners as well. So we are so worried about people burning out, both each other and our volunteers.

Cara:

And it’s a lot to burden. Reach out to people in your community and start working together. And really, it just takes the whole village to, you know, try to make an impactful difference, even if it’s just like a  not formal group. But if you see a neighbor that has a dog outside knocking, introducing yourself and seeing how you can support them. Right. A lot of these people might be elderly, too, so being able to bring them some dog food or cat food. That might be one less latte a week for you, but that might be a huge difference for that owner and the dog. So you don’t need to build a whole organization with multiple dogs. You could just partner with your single neighbor too.

Penny Ellison:

That is such great advice. I want to thank you both for not only for joining me, but for all the work you do. It’s really impressive and it’s really, as I said, unique. And keep it up.

Caroline:

Thank you so much for having us. Penny.

That’s it for today. The Animal Advocate is brought to you by the Animal Advocacy Academy. If today’s episode got you thinking about what you can do to change things for animals, I want to make sure you know about the four Cs of legislative advocacy for animals. It’s a free audio series I put together that gives you a real framework for making legislation happen. You can find it at animaladvocacyacademy.com/fourcs. and you can find all our episodes and show notes at animal advocacyacademy.com. Subscribe so you don’t miss an episode, and if you know another animal advocate who should be listening, send this one their way. Questions on today’s topic or anything else, just email us at podcast@animaladvocacyacademy.com we’ll write back, or we’ll feature your question in a future episode.

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